If press accounts are to be believed, the above Pistons season-ticket holder not only threw the fateful cup that sparked Ron Artest’s outrage last Friday night, but also attacked Artest from behind while the enraged Pacer was pummelling another patron.
I can’t feel sorry for a guy who makes $75,000+ PER GAME (more than I make in A YEAR). You’re paid to play and you’re paid to behave according to whatever the NBA’s rules are. Deal with it, that’s why you get a tasty pay check.
In my world, any player (regardless of salary) found taking a nap on the scorers’ table deserves at the very least cups over beers delivered to him.
People have been throwing beers for years. The guy who threw it was an idiot but that doesn’t excuse Artest’s reaction. Yes, the players are not just NBA millionaires, they are also humans, and as humans they make mistakes. And Artest fucked up, went way the fuck over the line and was punished accordingly. Tough. I may have some problems how they distributed the suspensions but Artest’s punishment seems in the realm of fair to me.
Jackie Robinson was pelted with more than a few beers in his career, but you never saw him in the stands.
Now, if only Artest was friends with Vince Coleman…
Hard though it may be to defend the actions of a player who climbed into the stands to attack fans (and not even the one that threw the beer), I’m wondering about precedent. Vernon Maxwell got 20 days for going after a fan, yet Artest receives a 73 game vacation. Though the former’s actions didn’t trigger a riot, I’m wondering how much of this is about justice and how much is a heavy-handed exercise in damage control.
I’d agree that it isn’t asking too much of the players that they not throttle the paying customers. Why those paying customers think their cretinous behavior is socially acceptable, however, is another question.
who’s saying that the paying customers’ cretinous behavior is socially acceptable?
guy should not have thrown beer, Artest should not have been showboating on the scorers’ table. fan is responsible for his actions, Artest is responsible for his actions. Guy throwing beer supposedly will get banned for the rest of the season, just like Artest. Seems kinda fair to me.
if this is just a case of the league going after a troublemaker I wonder what a ‘just’ sentence would have been then? 20 games? Judging by how much money these guys make they should get 20 games just for throwing computers off the table. whatever happened with showing how tough you are on the field?
there might be some truth to the idea that the NBA doesn’t like Artest and saw this as a golden opportunity to teach him a lesson. But had Artest just played basketball Friday night and collected his $75,000 per game salary he would be playing basketball tomorrow night as well for the same humble fee. He’s got a lot of time to promote his shitty music now at least. maxwell should maybe have gotten more than 20 games, at least he would get a helluva lot more if he was to run after a fan tomorrow.
who knew garth brooks had pistons seasons?
Of course Ron Artest over-reacted. Does that really surprise anyone at this late date?
But ninety seconds earlier he was in a shoving match with the toughest guy in the NBA. And he’s trying to keep his cool. So he laid on the scorers table – big fucking deal. If Michael Jordan would’ve done that, everybody would’ve been laughing at how personable it was.
The jerkoff who threw the beer knew Ron Artest’s track record – he was decked out in enough basketball gear to prove that he follows the game. So what do you expect to happen when you peg the most volatile player with a drink from nine rows away?
And because this is an era where everything is over-documented, it seems as bad as it was. But when we talk about Willis Reed going over to the Lakers’ bench and punching out people left and right, it’s more of a funny tall tale, because it wasn’t captured from fifty camera angles. If Reed did that today, one of the NBA’s all-time greats would be considered an out of control lunatic.
And I’m sorry, bringing salary into this is a chump argument. Is there a point where you’re paid enough to not stick up for yourself? And the fact that Ron makes more in a game than you do in a year is exactly the thinking that made that moron toss his drink at the scorers table.
If you want to make the Big Bucks like me or the men and women over at CSTB, might I suggest the following books?
Russell Rules: 11 Lessons on Leadership from the Twentieth Century’s Greatest Winner by Bill Russell
Move Without the Ball: Put Your Skills and Your Magic to Work for You by Stedman Graham
Success is a Choice: Ten Steps to Overachieving in Business and Life by Rick Pitino
Leading with the Heart: Coach K’s Successful Strategies for Basketball, Business, and Life by Mike Krzyzewski and Donald T. Phillips
I know these books have helped me reach the financial heights that I currently enjoy. Hopefully they will help you get there also.
See you in the clouds!
Jesper, though no one is outright saying that throwing beer on Artest is socially acceptable, the fact that so many people did so on Friday night means they somehow got it into their thick skulls that the price of admission gives them license to do so.
This was a much higher profile case than Mad Max’s, and the way it spiralled out of control with more fans/players involved, is also very different than what happened with Maxwell. And I think that has a bit to do with the penalties involved. Right or wrong, the league is obviously wigged out over the black eye the game has received over this and the beating the NBA is taking on talk radio, the editorial pages, etc. And much the way Sprewell’s 68 game suspension was challenged, I fully expect the Players Association and Artest’s laywers to seek a reduced sentence. Whether or not the Pacers will ever put him in uniform again, is another question.
I’m really not trying to make excuses for Ron Artest — he made a huge error in judgement and one he’ll have to pay a heavy price for. But you’ll note that in the past, I’ve wondered whether or not he has the faculties to make serious judgements —- that he was so oblivious to the way his request for time off would be received says to me that he’s not merely a thug / wannabe musician, but a guy with a tenuous grip on reality. Since there’s a ton of finger pointing going on (not on your part, I just mean in general), how about we question whether or not Larry Bird, the Pacers or the NBA have done nearly enough to get Artest some kind of professional help? This wasn’t the first time he’s had a public meltdown, it wasn’t even the 2nd or 3rd. Yeah, Artest makes a sick amount of money, but so does David Stern…off the blood and sweat of players like Ron Artest.
Monsewer Hoops, if you get pelted by a plastic cup while showboating and you get up and start throwing haymakers at innocent bystanders would that qualify as ‘sticking up’ for yourself? I have no patience for fistfights, especially when it involves people who had nothing to do with the provocation.
And I’m sorry, but money has an awful lot to do with it. It’s the reason Artest was in Detroit this past Friday night, and like it or not but people like dickhead with beer is paying Artest’s salary. Oh yeah, your library really sucks btw.
GC – the live coverage of the game I happened to be watching was full of commentators saying stuff like ‘the fans are nothing but punks’ ‘the way the Pistons fans are behaving tonight is nothing but a complete disgrace’ over and over. Guy throwing beer got a similar sentence to Artest I think, it seems fair to me. I understand why the guy threw the beer, and I understand why Artest reacted. Both fucked up, both were punished. end of story. I don’t think a 50-game suspension would have been any better or any worse. So it’s 73. Fair enough. Can’t compare to Willis Reed or the Boston Bruins either. Different time different place. Maxwell-comparisons I can understand. But this was worse than that and as it happened after the Maxwell incident the sentence needed to be more severe.
Jesper, though I’m sure the ESPN guys were harshly critcial of what was happening (the ex-players, esp.) by socially acceptable I mean more of what fans think they can get away with in a public place with their peers, not what Tim Legler is gonna think of them. Mob behavior isn’t a new thing and it isn’t limited to the sporting scene, but I’m a little taken aback at the amount of intense hostility being aimed at players these days. Is it any better or worse in the NBA compared to other sports? Probably not if the the scenes in Oakland and Chicago’s AL ballparks are anything to judge by.
I guess it is fair to say that some of us are divided over whether or not Artest napping on the scorer’s table constituted provocation or an act of passive resistance.
Also, I was wrong about Vernon Maxwell. He was suspended for 10 games, not 20.
For another point of view on this subject, check out Scott Long’s comments. http://www.all-baseball.com/willcarroll/archives/016444.html
fair enough. fuck ex-ball players sitting in a booth. and the ‘intense hostility’ towards athletes these days once again has a lot to do with money. not everything, but a lot. Hoops can say whatever he wants.
and hey, anyone claiming that Artest’s nap was “an act of passive resistance” needs more help that Artest does.
Aren’t we all supposed to be upset about ABC showing a black football player ogling a white desperate housewife or something? What happened to that? I don’t think salaries or race or the times we live in have anything to do with it. How about all the little league dads getting into it every year over their kids? How about that guy that got killed at his kid’s hockey game a few years back? Ty Cobb charged the stands to beat a loudmouth fan near to death 90 years ago, and that fan had no hands. How about the hunters that shot each other this week? How about sports radio clowns that “hate” Barry Bonds (for what?) but when Pat Tillman dies, turn around and lecture ME about how I need to get MY priorities straight. “Hardball” was the best tonight. The conservative blamed the “elite” millionaire immoral athlete while the liberal blamed the redneck, beer drinking fans. I’m going to TIVO “Access Hollywood” tonight to see how Janeane Garofalo and Dennis Miller come out on this one.
Ben
J.E. – I’m claming that Artest’s snooze on the scorers’ table was an act of passive resistance. And yes, I do have more issues than he does. Of ‘What Car’ magazine.
Ben – I’m blaming everyone who either has internet access or 4 limbs.
“I don’t go around breaking the law.” aka drinking, let alone brawling.
From today’s NYTimes:
John Green, 39, who the authorities say threw a partly filled cup at Artest (Green has denied it), pleaded his case in interviews on television.
Green made the most of his celebrity yesterday, appearing on television shows throughout the day. On “Good Morning America,” he said that he was not drinking Friday night and that Artest was “being a thug.”
“I don’t go around breaking the law,” Green said. “If they have found that I broke the law, I’ll pay the price.”
Green is on probation for a second drunken driving conviction last year. Under terms of his probation, he must attend substance-abuse treatment and is not allowed to drink.
Green served prison time from 1986 to 1994 for various offenses, including assault, carrying a concealed weapon and escape from prison, according to a Michigan Department of Corrections spokesman, Leo Lalonde.
In video replays, Green was the man in the blue Pistons shirt and white hat, grabbing Artest from behind. No charges have been filed against Green.
Jesper –
Please tell me the annual salary that someone has to make before they are ineligible to respond to getting pegged with a beer.
Of course Artest was wrong. I’m not disputing that. But assuming that since he was pulling down 75 grand a game elevates him to some higher level of responsibility is flawed thinking. So who is allowed to fight back? The guy at the end of the bench? The trainer? The towel boy?
There’s a growing attitude among fans that they can do or say whatever they want just because they bought a ticket. Like you said, they feel since they’re paying the salaries of the players, they have a right to crap all over their employees if they want. And that’s just shitty. Besides, the dickhead who threw the beer is paying the salaries of the Pistons players.
And yes, it is sticking up for yourself. Everything up to that point was between players. No different than it is any other game. John Green is the one who crossed the barrier between player and fan. Ron Artest responded. Crazily. Ineffectively. Poorly. But he responded.
And my reading list is flawless. Your cynicism is what’s holding you back from making The Big Bucks. Trust me – I was like you a few years ago. Read a few chapters of Move Without the Ball and before you know it you’ll be pulling in the caysh that me, CSTB and Ron-Ron make before getting out of bed in the morning.
Mr. Hoops,
I had to quibble with someone as esteemed as yourself, but here goes.
1) The amount of money someone needs to make before they are ineligible to retaliate against a beer-thrower is $75,000.00 a game.
2) The dickhead is also paying the salaries of the Pacers players. Some of the loot from those officially licensed Ben Wallace warm-up tops is paid out as a royalty, league-wide.
3) I’m afraid you and Ron A. are alone in the Millionaire Boy’s Club — I lost my fortune in the big Krispy Kreme Krash of ’05.
CSTB –
You’re right on the jersey thing. But that doesn’t take away from the ugly attitude that’s creeping into sports. I hope I dont sound like a loose cannon, but I would hope that – if I was pegged by said beer at an event that I would be more likely to be participating in – an open mic night at Luna Lounge, for example – I wouldn’t just take it. Of course, I’m talking about retaliating in a non-insane non-Artest way.
And thank you for giving me the dollar amount of non-retaliation. Now if I could only be less successful, I could start fighting back. Damn my business aptitude!
I don’t buy your claims of non-megawealth. I cant throw a rock in my neck of the woods without hitting someone sporting a CSTB t-shirt, flak jacket or hunting cap. And I literally live in the woods.
I saw a thing on VH-1 that said money is to be made in merchandising. So you can’t put one over on me!
Tommy Hoops
PS – I checked out the Allure CD. Not too shabby. I think Ron Ron is going to be attacking all the way to the bank!!
No one is saying Artest didn’t have the right to retaliate. I’m just saying that if he decides to go ‘passive resistance’ on a fan (the wrong one too) he will automatically be rewarded the leave of absence he was asking for earlier. he can do whatever he wants but he has to be aware that he’ll be punished if he breaks the law, the code, the rules. That doesn’t mean I give the fans a free pass. I have stated it before, but i think both parties were punished fairly enough. And Artest’s salary is only interesting insofar as it creates a bigger and bigger divide between fans and players, it could go so far as having players think they can get away with most anything on and off the court (be it driving too fast on the interstate, showing little or no respect for women, asking for time off to promote CDs, throw TVs around etc etc) and it could go as far as the fans being too easily ticked off by lame on-court behavior post-several beers on a Friday night and start throwing beers. I really hope it doesn’t get this far.
According to that Scott Long link the worst thing in sports is fans who buy merchandise. And I’m the one being cooky?
PS I ordered a CSTB members-only jacket months ago but it still hasn’t arrived. What gives?
I need to see some charges brought against some of the fans before it’s a two-way street.
And I know people in third-rate garage bands that get away with showing little respect for women and breaking things that dont belong to them.
Tommy
CSTB: Blaming everyone with four limbs is a good start. I’m sick of everyone using their pet peeves about sports ($$$, beer, race, trash fans, thug athletes, Artest = Bush after 9/11, etc.) to explain away that we live in a violent country. No word on swift vote vets coming down on Artest or not, but its imminent.
Tommy Hoops — get a Bible, that’s real success.
Ben
JE – sorry about the jacket, but the new CSTB style is one that covers the entire torso, not just your member. If you still want one, lemme know.
Tommy – please, no gratuitious Paige Hamilton bashing in this forum or I will have to ban you.
If fans are going to attack someone for being grossly overpaid, can I suggest Josh Harnett?